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alansouthcoast
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimbob wrote: | What really annoys me is David Cameron attempting to score some political points over this! What a disgusting, cheap trick  |
Cameron would get my vote in an election, but i fully agree with you.
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lochsong
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| alansouthcoast wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | What really annoys me is David Cameron attempting to score some political points over this! What a disgusting, cheap trick |
Cameron would get my vote in an election, but i fully agree with you. |
So you are a self confessed Tory are you Alan? 
It is a cheap shot. And he is leaving himself open to future debate. 
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alansouthcoast
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| lochsong wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | What really annoys me is David Cameron attempting to score some political points over this! What a disgusting, cheap trick |
Cameron would get my vote in an election, but i fully agree with you. |
So you are a self confessed Tory are you Alan?
It is a cheap shot. And he is leaving himself open to future debate. |
Not really self confessed Lochsong, more or the best choice of a bad bunch in my opinion.
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geordie_racer
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| lochsong wrote: | | geordie_racer wrote: | | lochsong wrote: | Thanks JB
I'm well aquainted with what is in your newspaper excerpt. Where I come from they didn't even have social services as such. They just let them get on with it.
GR
I agree with your first sentence.
The rest of it is hogwash. If those folks are in it for the money then they need to find another profession. |
so its ok to underfund vital services and pay people in them badly?
did you say the same when nuses wanted a pay rise?
shouuld we reduce the fireman's pay and the paramedics pay because, after all, they shouldnt be in ti for the money?
there is a fundamental difference between people being "in it for the oney" annd being underpaid |
You can drag up the essential services if you want GR
That just clouds the issue.
We are talking about the systematic beating of a child here, not a house on fire or a car accident or treatment to patients that are already in care.
Thankfully those folks care about what they are doing.
Who cares for the little toddler that is being smacked around their head day in and day out until they die?
It's a hard issue to deal with.
And seeing through the lies and deception is a hard job. |
seeing through the lies and deception is VERY hard
thats why the social services, whose officers are met with those lies, treats, vioelence on a regular basis deserve proper support and reward; PLUS they need to be able to do their jobs without the mountain of paperwork
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lochsong
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| geordie_racer wrote: | | lochsong wrote: | | geordie_racer wrote: | | lochsong wrote: | Thanks JB
I'm well aquainted with what is in your newspaper excerpt. Where I come from they didn't even have social services as such. They just let them get on with it.
GR
I agree with your first sentence.
The rest of it is hogwash. If those folks are in it for the money then they need to find another profession. |
so its ok to underfund vital services and pay people in them badly?
did you say the same when nuses wanted a pay rise?
shouuld we reduce the fireman's pay and the paramedics pay because, after all, they shouldnt be in ti for the money?
there is a fundamental difference between people being "in it for the oney" annd being underpaid |
You can drag up the essential services if you want GR
That just clouds the issue.
We are talking about the systematic beating of a child here, not a house on fire or a car accident or treatment to patients that are already in care.
Thankfully those folks care about what they are doing.
Who cares for the little toddler that is being smacked around their head day in and day out until they die?
It's a hard issue to deal with.
And seeing through the lies and deception is a hard job. |
seeing through the lies and deception is VERY hard
thats why the social services, whose officers are met with those lies, treats, vioelence on a regular basis deserve proper support and reward; PLUS they need to be able to do their jobs without the mountain of paperwork |
I can tell you are in the legal trade.
Must we go out and hold their hands while they do their job?
No. Just do what they purport to to be doing. What support do they need GR - armed police? No they choose to go into society and weed out the child abusers. A noble undertaking. Well for god's sake do it with nobility! Don't rely on backup - , if we all relied on backup nothing would get done would it?
You see my point?
*takes a deep breath*
Geordie - there are people out there that perform a selfless, thankless task (regarding the wellfare of children) every day in countries far away that we hear nothing about. They have no support, reward or anything of that nature. They do it because they feel it is just. They may see some of the money that is thrown their way, but a lot of it is absorbed in the beaurocracy (sp?) that gets it there.
So what I'm saying is that if the poorly paid folks that you are defending actually gave a shit about their job or what they are being paid to do then that child might not have been beaten to death.
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Owl of Minerva
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Well said Lochsong. Makes me laugh how every time someone screws up you get some people saying "well they're not paid enough". If you feel you are not paid enough then lobby for better pay through the correct channels (etc.) whilst doing your job properly at the same time, or, if you can't do that, comma off and get another better paid job - don't use pay as an excuse to do your job badly. You think giving them another few grand a year would have stopped these mistakes? Give me a break. It was incompetence. They have a hard job, and yes it is a noble job (when done properly) but that doesn't absolve them from blame/taking responsibility when something goes wrong. |
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Travelrug
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Posts: 27
Location: Aberdeenshire
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Several months ago I had a discussion with a couple of work colleagues regarding capital punishment. They were surprised and disappointed that I supported it as a form of punishment for particular crimes. In this particular case I would go further than supporting it......I would quite happily be the person pushing the button, pulling the lever or giving them the jag. |
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geordie_racer
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Owl of Minerva wrote: | | Well said Lochsong. Makes me laugh how every time someone screws up you get some people saying "well they're not paid enough". If you feel you are not paid enough then lobby for better pay through the correct channels (etc.) whilst doing your job properly at the same time, or, if you can't do that, comma off and get another better paid job - don't use pay as an excuse to do your job badly. You think giving them another few grand a year would have stopped these mistakes? Give me a break. It was incompetence. They have a hard job, and yes it is a noble job (when done properly) but that doesn't absolve them from blame/taking responsibility when something goes wrong. |
no-one is using being underoaid as an excuse for doing a job badly. if thats how my post came over then apologies
but if you [ay [anuts you get monkeys, and we are asking these people to do a job which is worth more tha they are apid
i cannot believe, by th way, that the agencies who failed to prevent this are beng subject to more vitrio; than the [people who actually killed the child...
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NoDough
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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These Agencis should "just do their job"
60 visits - what a disgrace |
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Tagalie
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Location: Out on the wiley windy moor
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| geordie_racer wrote: |
i cannot believe, by th way, that the agencies who failed to prevent this are beng subject to more vitrio; than the [people who actually killed the child... |
I find this puzzling too.
Yes, clearly, massive, unacceptable failings in the system that need to be immediately resolved. But the social workers involved are not on the same moral plane as those who casually tortured and killed a child.
Would any of those spewing outrage at the social workers like to give up their comfortable, well-paid office jobs and spend their days trudging around some of the most depressing estates in Britain, subject to verbal and physical abuse from the dregs of society, with people viewing them either as over-zealous do-gooders intent on breaking up families, or as lazy bureaucrats happy to let kids be murdered? I am in no way excusing the shocking decision-making in this case, just pointing out that being a social worker is, IMO, pretty much the worst job imaginable in this country. Thankless, long hours, depressing, dangerous, rubbish pay for massive responsibility- why on earth would anyone want to be one?
By all means have an independent review into what went so horribly wrong in this incident (I believe a GP was also at fault for failing to diagnose a broken spine) and discipline accordingly, but all this tabloid baying for blood isn't helping current social workers do their job, or encouraging anybody else to apply.
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La Viola
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| geordie_racer wrote: | the real villains here are the adults who perptrated the crime
Im sure that anyone who work in social services//healthcare in this area will tell you that they are underpaid, under-resourced and drowning in beaureaucracy
there's no doubt that some mistakes have been made here but the problem with the social services lies (I think) in a lack of funding, an over-formalised and paper-work based system and under-paid / under-resourced staff who are mainly demoralised and under motivated. |
Not wanting to start off on the wrong foot but could I ask GR, are you an employment lawyer? |
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dogsaver
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Location: enniskillen n.ireland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| anyway where did it come from that they are badly paid ,they get a lot more than people on minimum wage and probably do a lot less |
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geordie_racer
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dogsaver wrote: | | anyway where did it come from that they are badly paid ,they get a lot more than people on minimum wage and probably do a lot less |
do a lot less?
give over
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Geordie_R
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dogsaver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| geordie_racer wrote: | | dogsaver wrote: | | anyway where did it come from that they are badly paid ,they get a lot more than people on minimum wage and probably do a lot less |
do a lot less?
give over |
you either are related to a social worker or you represent them, any that i know ,i would not employ |
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geordie_racer
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dogsaver wrote: | | geordie_racer wrote: | | dogsaver wrote: | | anyway where did it come from that they are badly paid ,they get a lot more than people on minimum wage and probably do a lot less |
do a lot less?
give over |
you either are related to a social worker or you represent them, any that i know ,i would not employ |
neither
and I supect that your employees do not face the hazards that many social workers do on a regular - if not daily- basis
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Geordie_R
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