forum.sports-pro.co.uk

[jennywales]

Have just watched 2 rounds of the show-jumping (Canada and Switzerland) and it has only confirmed how much I dislike the "sport" - horses with mouths full of ironmongery, strapped down, with every sort of constraint under the sun - I noticed, in 2 rounds, 2 horses with pelhams or possibly double bridles - hard to see the pelham roundings - and running martingales, which is I think banned as cruel by the BSJA, and cross nosebands, dropped nosebands (with pelhams!) and all sorts of foolery.

Can't stand it!!

At least in racing, the idea is to let the horse run reasonably free (therefore no bits more severe than a snaffle or a Fulmer snaffle - the one with cheekpieces - or possibly a Chifney). And no martingales, an occasional drop or cross noseband but nothing more (and some racing bridles have no nosebands at all).

Showjumping - pah! Bunch of control freaks.

End of rant - I suspect my sprained ankle is making me crosser than usual!  

[Rowan]

[suejoe]

[Rowan]

[westmeadhawk]

I seem to remember when I rode some very basic tests years ago, there was a requirement to walk round at the end and let your horse stretch out and down through the neck.  Maybe I've remembered wrong and it was just what I did after the test, not required at all?

Anyone?
_________________
Jimi Hendrix b.27/11/42 "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens"

Loyal Honcho - Statbuster & Derby Winner '08

[geordie_racer]

[jennywales]

Dressage: the international rules prohibit any bridle other than a conventional double bridle, and nothing else, so no martingales, no funny-shaped nosebands, and the riders can carry/use neither whips nor spurs. So ironmongery in dressage is forbidden!

The quite severe compression of the horses' neck is sometimes a result of early training with complicated "training aids" (eg the deGogue) to get what is thought of as a "proper outline". In fact, judges should punish overbending (that is, any horse that is bent at the neck so much that its face is beyond the vertical plane in any pace). And at this level they will, though at lower levels you see far too many horses that are overbent.

The extended (loose rein) walk is a requirement of some tests, and is marked in the same way as the other movements. The horse should stretch its neck and reach downwards to accept the bit, thus proving the riders' lightness of hand and the horses' confidence, relaxation and suppleness.

I hope that helps a bit.

[jennywales]

[westmeadhawk]

[jennywales]

Think of it this way.

Have a look at pictures (stills) of the Spanish Riding School horses. What do you notice? One of the things should be that the riders have NO contact via the curb rein, and only the lightest contact via the bit rein. The horses are in "self carriage" - that is, they have learned by a co-operative process to engage the hocks sufficiently that they are so light in the forehand that "contact" is unnecessary apart, literally, from the weight of the reins. And if you look at one doing the levade, the hocks come even further under the body of the horse so as to raise the forehand in the half-rear - that half-rear is NOT produced by a strong contact.

The three "rules" of the Spanish Riding School:

Controlled forward impulsion
Even rhythm at all paces
Correct bend in all movements

None of that says anything at all about contacts - the contact is a refinement, not a requirement! In theory, anyone should be able to ride any of the Grand Prix movements without a bridle at all!!

On riding schools, it depends very much what you want. For a few years I relished the discipline of the indoor school, with the opportunity to ride Lippizaners regularly on Spanish Riding School principles. I did go to Vienna to ride in the school there, and it was a daunting experience! But I then found out about eventing and point to pointing (for which the dressage fundamentals provided a hugely important grounding). If you can find a riding school that works on Spanish Riding School principles (ask, they'll tell you, it can't be faked!) then try that style - it is precise, challenging and very very skilled. I was only sort of good-ish at it.

[westmeadhawk]

Thanks for the, as ever, sound advice Jenny.

I used to ride with Jim Bell who was in his 80s at the Dulwich Riding School about 10 years ago.  We were drilled in terms I cannot even remember now in the school (I rode a fab Holstein mare).  It was very intense but brilliant for the seat.  He was a wonderful horseman whose passion was Welsh ponies!

As I am reminiscing, have you heard of Sylvia Loch?  I ignorantly was interviewed by her for a job in Suffolk, before they moved to Scotland.  I had no idea who she was then and it was not so much an interview as a frogmarch to the riding school to ride her Lusitano stallion.  They hoovered up the yard (I kid you not) and Lady Loch lent me the softest leather riding gloves I have ever worn (and I used to work at WH Giddens in Mayfair).  Anyway, the riding,  sack of potatoes might not fully describe my performance on the beautiful horse, wearing the exquisite gloves.

No job offer was forthcoming although it was looking after her children who I didn't meet  

Sorry a bit of memory lane there, I'll see if we can find something as you describe in Essex.  My friend is after a  certain warmblood she knows, bred for dressage, at the mo but to persuade her husband of it she may need to suggest that the horse is her Olympic one for 2012...
_________________
Jimi Hendrix b.27/11/42 "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens"

Loyal Honcho - Statbuster & Derby Winner '08

[jennywales]

Yes, I have indeed heard of Sylvia Loch - a great dressage guru (although I was always - literally - of the Robert Hall school!) I think she came to Fulmer to audit one of our classes.....(by the way, the Fulmer snaffle - the one with cheekpieces - was developed at Fulmer by Robert Hall for those of us who couldn't be trusted with a proper double bridle as yet, and has gone into general use, even in racing. Very good, as the cheekpieces prevent the bit and the joint being dragged through the horses' mouth).

I wish I had those gloves these days.....although we were not encouraged to wear gloves, except in the depths of winter, on the grounds that they prevented a true feel of the contact!!

I think Jim Bell was ex-cavalry, where discipline and practical horsemanship was more important than the poncy dressage twiddles!! My farrier is ex-Life Guards and he has some stories, as you can imagine!

[Tagalie]

According to the BBC, there have been some positive tests back on some showjumping nags- press conference and more details shortly. I doubt GB will move up from 7th though.
_________________
Be good. Don't trust boys.

[jennywales]

[westmeadhawk]

I forgot the surname last night, it was Jim Bellman and he has sadly died in the last five years.  From his dates it looks like he was well in to his seventies when I rode there but reading the link has brought it all back and brought a tear to my eye really.  After riding and sorting the horses we would have cup of tea in the tack room of an evening and he would regale us with his wisdom and do some Q&A, every week, without fail.  He would have made great tv I always thought.  I never forget he used to say "the eye of the master maketh the horse" and in these days of scopes, blood tests, heart monitors and regular weighing it remains a great truth!

RIP Jim Bellman thanks for the memories.  

Sorry for hijacking the thread.  I'll leave it there!

http://www.dulwichsociety.org.uk/newsletter/200402-07-08.shtml
_________________
Jimi Hendrix b.27/11/42 "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens"

Loyal Honcho - Statbuster & Derby Winner '08